metco 101bns powder / tensile strength
07-12-2016, 06:54 PM,
#1
metco 101bns powder / tensile strength
has anyone used metco 450ns{bond] and metco 101bns top in your applications? i have been spraying this for years and average tensile with glue is 8100, and 3500 with f100 wafers, i would like to know what any of you all average.

thank you, Roger Milam
Reply
07-23-2016, 11:39 AM,
#2
RE: metco 101bns powder / tensile strength
(07-12-2016, 06:54 PM)RogerMilam Wrote: has anyone used metco 450ns{bond] and metco 101bns top in your applications? i have been spraying this for years and average tensile with glue is 8100, and 3500 with f100 wafers, i would like to know what any of you all average.

thank you, Roger Milam

Hello,
Liquid glue penetrates within porosive coating and increases it's strength.
Actually, you check the strength of coating filled by glue.
Correct values gives wafers of FM1000 (I think, this is correct name).
FM1000, not liquid glue is actually approved for the most of aerospace applications.
For this coatings combination we get strength of about 3000-5000 MPa/
Regards,
Boris
Reply
07-23-2016, 11:46 AM,
#3
RE: metco 101bns powder / tensile strength
(07-23-2016, 11:39 AM)Boris Volfman Wrote:
(07-12-2016, 06:54 PM)RogerMilam Wrote: has anyone used metco 450ns{bond] and metco 101bns top in your applications? i have been spraying this for years and average tensile with glue is 8100, and 3500 with f100 wafers, i would like to know what any of you all average.

thank you, Roger Milam

Hello,
Liquid glue penetrates within porosive coating and increases it's strength.
Actually, you check the strength of coating filled by glue.
Correct values gives wafers of FM1000 (I think, this is correct name).
FM1000, not liquid glue is actually approved for the most of aerospace applications.
For this coatings combination we get strength of about 3000-5000 MPa/
Regards,
Boris

Thanks Boris,

that is what i am seeing often, Pratt is the only one that is asking for 5000 psi min, and we are bouncing above and below that number.

Reply
05-21-2021, 06:38 AM,
#4
RE: metco 101bns powder / tensile strength
Hi Guys,

Someone can tell me why the bond strenght between metco 450ns & 101bsn is it so variable ?
Currently with F4 gun, we are not able to meet the 5000psi asked by spec on theses powders. We are only able to only reach 4000psi.
In the past, the average results was more than 6000psi but this month, it isn't possible.
The faillure is always situeted at the interface bond coat - top coat.
I have made on test of 101bsn on metco 443ns, and now the faillure is at 4800 psi 100% in the 101bns.

Can you helps me ?
Many thanks,
Paul Gilson
Reply
05-21-2021, 04:05 PM,
#5
RE: metco 101bns powder / tensile strength
(05-21-2021, 06:38 AM)pgilson Wrote: Hi Guys,

Someone can tell me why the bond strenght between metco 450ns & 101bsn is it so variable ?
Currently with F4 gun, we are not able to meet the 5000psi asked by spec on theses powders. We are only able to only reach 4000psi.
In the past, the average results was more than 6000psi but this month, it isn't possible.
The faillure is always situeted at the interface bond coat - top coat.
I have made on test of 101bsn on metco 443ns, and now the faillure is at 4800 psi 100% in the 101bns.

Can you helps me ?
Many thanks,
Paul Gilson

Hi Paul,

There is nothing surprising in the fact that the adhesion strength of the ceramic coating with the nickel-aluminum sublayer varies widely. A wide range of mechanical properties (large Weibull modulus) is characteristic not only of coatings, but also of compact ceramic materials. This is explained by the absence of plastic deformation in ceramic materials and their high fragility. The situation with coatings is even worse than with compact ceramics, since ceramic coatings have pores, microcracks, and internal stresses. In addition, the smallest changes in the deposition parameters can lead to very large changes in the properties of ceramic coatings.
In other words, there are many possible reasons why the bond strength of your coating to the subcoat has changed and it is impossible to name a specific reason without a detailed comparison of all coating conditions.
Reply
05-24-2021, 12:54 PM,
#6
RE: metco 101bns powder / tensile strength
(05-21-2021, 04:05 PM)Vadim Verlotski Wrote:
(05-21-2021, 06:38 AM)pgilson Wrote: Hi Guys,

Someone can tell me why the bond strenght between metco 450ns & 101bsn is it so variable ?
Currently with F4 gun, we are not able to meet the 5000psi asked by spec on theses powders. We are only able to only reach 4000psi.
In the past, the average results was more than 6000psi but this month, it isn't possible.
The faillure is always situeted at the interface bond coat - top coat.
I have made on test of 101bsn on metco 443ns, and now the faillure is at 4800 psi 100% in the 101bns.

Can you helps me ?
Many thanks,
Paul Gilson

Hi Paul,

There is nothing surprising in the fact that the adhesion strength of the ceramic coating with the nickel-aluminum sublayer varies widely. A wide range of mechanical properties (large Weibull modulus) is characteristic not only of coatings, but also of compact ceramic materials. This is explained by the absence of plastic deformation in ceramic materials and their high fragility. The situation with coatings is even worse than with compact ceramics, since ceramic coatings have pores, microcracks, and internal stresses. In addition, the smallest changes in the deposition parameters can lead to very large changes in the properties of ceramic coatings.
In other words, there are many possible reasons why the bond strength of your coating to the subcoat has changed and it is impossible to name a specific reason without a detailed comparison of all coating conditions.

Hi Vadim, 

Thanks a lot for your answer !

Currently, the only parameters that we see is the moisture in the powder and the humidity in the atmosphere of the coating department. We can usually see lower humidity (less than 30%). Now we can have more than 40% due to bad weather conditions.
For the powders, we have between 2 & 6% of humidity at 65°C.
Theses parameters are the only parameters we have seen changed since the beginning of this problem and this problem appears only on these 2 powders.
We are waiting for the next scheduled maintenance to kown more about the modified parameters of this machine.
Reply
05-08-2022, 07:53 PM,
#7
RE: metco 101bns powder / tensile strength
(05-24-2021, 12:54 PM)pgilson Wrote:
(05-21-2021, 04:05 PM)Vadim Verlotski Wrote:
(05-21-2021, 06:38 AM)pgilson Wrote: Hi Guys,

Someone can tell me why the bond strenght between metco 450ns & 101bsn is it so variable ?
Currently with F4 gun, we are not able to meet the 5000psi asked by spec on theses powders. We are only able to only reach 4000psi.
In the past, the average results was more than 6000psi but this month, it isn't possible.
The faillure is always situeted at the interface bond coat - top coat.
I have made on test of 101bsn on metco 443ns, and now the faillure is at 4800 psi 100% in the 101bns.

Can you helps me ?
Many thanks,
Paul Gilson

Hi Paul,

There is nothing surprising in the fact that the adhesion strength of the ceramic coating with the nickel-aluminum sublayer varies widely. A wide range of mechanical properties (large Weibull modulus) is characteristic not only of coatings, but also of compact ceramic materials. This is explained by the absence of plastic deformation in ceramic materials and their high fragility. The situation with coatings is even worse than with compact ceramics, since ceramic coatings have pores, microcracks, and internal stresses. In addition, the smallest changes in the deposition parameters can lead to very large changes in the properties of ceramic coatings.
In other words, there are many possible reasons why the bond strength of your coating to the subcoat has changed and it is impossible to name a specific reason without a detailed comparison of all coating conditions.

Hi Vadim, 

Thanks a lot for your answer !

Currently, the only parameters that we see is the moisture in the powder and the humidity in the atmosphere of the coating department. We can usually see lower humidity (less than 30%). Now we can have more than 40% due to bad weather conditions.
For the powders, we have between 2 & 6% of humidity at 65°C.
Theses parameters are the only parameters we have seen changed since the beginning of this problem and this problem appears only on these 2 powders.
We are waiting for the next scheduled maintenance to kown more about the modified parameters of this machine.

Hello
5000 PSI is high for 101BNS, in aviation maximum request is around 3600 PSI, this is already high value I think (it depend of thickness value are for around 200 micrometers).
We have noticed tensile change for around 6 month, we have far higher values than ever, and this change match with production area in US and my point of view new batch are better produced than in past. Try change powder batch, perhaps there is a link.
Reply




Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  HVOF T800 Tensile Bond Strength issue wgg237 3 6,626 09-11-2023, 09:18 AM
Last Post: Sail L
  Metco powder code selection GuadalupeSullivan 1 4,302 06-27-2019, 10:24 AM
Last Post: loriolo
  Sulzer Metco 58NS Copper-Nickel-Indium alloy powder question RaymondF2 1 3,572 09-05-2018, 04:35 PM
Last Post: ServiceTech
  Tensile Test TBC giuiori75 1 3,694 09-29-2017, 02:35 AM
Last Post: achmadarifudinh
  tensile test failure analysis (HELP) CHI3 0 3,116 05-23-2017, 08:07 PM
Last Post: CHI3
Question Metco powder code selection mohsen hasanzadeh 1 3,319 10-10-2016, 09:15 PM
Last Post: loriolo
  F4 Gun Process Parameters required for Metco 2043 Powder sreenuvundela 1 9,088 01-16-2014, 11:02 PM
Last Post: loriolo
  Al-Si Graphit Powder metco 313NS mlavar 4 7,930 09-29-2013, 01:41 PM
Last Post: mlavar
  low tensile strength problem raviswanadha 8 9,483 06-07-2013, 09:34 AM
Last Post: kriskros
Question What is the correct EN standard for the Tensile Testing of 18CrNiMo7-6? Anand Trivedi 0 4,130 10-09-2012, 06:52 PM
Last Post: Anand Trivedi
Question How do reduce tensile strength of coating Metco 52C-NS? Christine 24 31,791 10-27-2011, 03:51 PM
Last Post: Gordon
  tensile properties metalman 3 5,963 11-23-2010, 02:14 PM
Last Post: Gordon
  tensile bond strength and met examination TurbineRepair 7 11,033 07-23-2008, 03:33 PM
Last Post: TurbineRepair



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)





Surface Engineering Forum Sponsor - Alphatek Hyperformance Coatings Ltd