Want to purchase Thermal coating system, need advice
05-21-2009, 07:32 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2009, 07:44 PM by Danowolf.)
#1
Want to purchase Thermal coating system, need advice
Hello everyone, I am interested in purchasing a thermal coating system. I am only slightly familiar with Sulzer Metco systems. If you have a suggestion for another system let me know.
I primarily will be doing corrosion prevention jobs but suspect there may be a market for decorative coatings so if more than one product is required for these two diffent application please fill me in.

I originally intended to buy a portable trailer mounted system that used a 14e gun with oxy/cet fuel for basic corrosion prevention jobs with zinc/alum wire. (Side note: the thing that brought me into the thermal spray world was an Ansul fire extinguisher I got from Homestead Air force base after Hurricane Andrew in 92'. I took the fire extinguisher to be sandblasted with the idea of repainting it. The man at the sandblasting operation had a new Sulzer Metco wire feed flame coating system with zinc/alum wire. He suggested I try that out to prevent corrosion. I had him sandblast then flame coat with zinc/alum wire and every since I have been amazed at the sacrificial nature of that coating and its resistance to corrosion. I left the fire extinguisher out on the grass in the Florida weather for over 10 years total now having to bring it in at times depending on where I lived but not a single spot of rust has every appeared on this fire extinguisher)
Ok so that’s how I got the thermal coating bug.

Now I have a piece of property and time enough to dedicate to the technology and want a system. I found this system for sale but I am concerned that I cannot get parts: Sulzer Metco, #4RPE-200 AMP, 4 Position, 4RC Spray Gun. This is a full system all the parts and gun needed to work. But if no parts are available on an old system I don’t want to throw my money down a hole.
What do you all know about parts for this system and if you don’t think this is a good way to go what system do you recommend?

Thanks in advance, Dan
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05-21-2009, 09:32 PM, (This post was last modified: 05-21-2009, 09:32 PM by Intel55.)
#2
RE: Want to purchase Thermal coating system, need advice
I would use a Flame Spray Technologies AWS-400 TWAS. They are around $18,000-18,500 USD brand new. Just air and electricity.

their website is https://www.fst.nl

the main flame spray firms are Sulzer Metco, Flame Spray Technologies and Praxair.
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05-22-2009, 02:11 AM, (This post was last modified: 05-22-2009, 02:35 AM by LEN WOOD.)
#3
RE: Want to purchase Thermal coating system, need advice
I would say that the Primary TS Vendors/Innovators/Developers are Sulzer Metco, Praxair and Metallisation. Yes they have developed their capacities and craft with other Company acquisitions. And yes there are others but they are less significant and specialise in less of a range of TS process equipment and technology.

While these 3 have their strengths and weaknesses as far as individual processes go. FST are part of the crowd that primarily copy other TS Systems made by the big 3 et al. OK in some cases the systems are deviations but fundamentally they are ‘borrowed’. The AWS-400 TW is the BP400 (Miller, TAFA, Thermach). I also see that FST share their consumable parts picture with an Asian pirater.
PM me if you want to know more.....

All that said I don't think that you could go too wrong with a second hand Arc spray machine at the right price but you should also be aware of the impact of MTBF (Mean Time between Failures). What I'm saying is that some systems are more costly to maintain as they consume more hardware: gun parts (tips, caps, nozzles, etc), wire conduits, Dioides, etc. Also, when a more 'sophisticted' (more electronics. PCBs, etc) machine starts to age then system hardware replacement will be a major expense and downtime cause. The scenario would be similar to a car. In the case of second hand machines (and the fact that you’re not a big corporation who reinvest/replace on a frequent basis) I would suggest that you go for a more robust, less tech’, choked, ‘older style’ Arc spray system or even a Flamespray system would serve you very well for you application.

Don’t hesitate to PM me for my own personal Independant recommendations.

Just for the record I post Independant replies on this Forum to help and guide other members. While my advice is based on my own knowledge and experience, I do appreciate that there are other perspectives, experiences & opinions and welcome their submission. Knobody could know all!

TO ALL: If you find the information and assistance I have offered (past, present & future) to be useful, helpful, cumulative etc; then please Rate me in my reputation Review. It would make it all the more worthwhile!

May the Force be with you Wink
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05-22-2009, 12:00 PM,
#4
RE: Want to purchase Thermal coating system, need advice
Good morning Dan,

You'll see from my signature that I work for Sulzer Metco in the UK so I do have a bias here, but I will try to be as impartial as possible.

Firstly I wouldn't recommend that you purchase the 4R system unless it is VERY cheap indeed. This system has been obsolete for a very long time and is no longer supported with spares. There are a few bits available here and there, but you could find yourself with an unsupported machine in fairly short order.

Secondly I agree entirely with Glen regarding the requirement for simplicity for anticorrosion arc systems. I don't know if you are in the market for a new system but the Ecoarc anticorrosion systems in our catalogue are very robust, reliable, cheap to run and easy to use. If you would like some technical information and/or pricing I would be happy to email it over to you.

However, what is worth considering is how much you are intending to spray. The Arc systems are capable of greater speed and coverage (and of course use no gases) however the capital expenditure is much higher than a flame spray system at the beginning. I've done some calculations recently (based on the cost of new systems but it should pro-rata to second hand) that the break point is just under five hundred square meters of anticorrosion spraying per year based on a three year amortisation of the purchase cost. If you anticipate spraying more than this then go for arc, if less then this then go for a flame system.

If you'd like any further information or assistance from a Sulzer Metco point of view please feel free to contact me anytime.
Simon Hiiemae
Sulzer Metco (UK) Ltd
01633 488 091
emailaddressisSimon.Hiiemae@Sulzer.com
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05-22-2009, 06:57 PM,
#5
RE: Want to purchase Thermal coating system, need advice
(05-21-2009, 07:32 PM)Danowolf Wrote: Hello everyone, I am interested in purchasing a thermal coating system. I am only slightly familiar with Sulzer Metco systems. If you have a suggestion for another system let me know.
I primarily will be doing corrosion prevention jobs but suspect there may be a market for decorative coatings so if more than one product is required for these two diffent application please fill me in.

I originally intended to buy a portable trailer mounted system that used a 14e gun with oxy/cet fuel for basic corrosion prevention jobs with zinc/alum wire. (Side note: the thing that brought me into the thermal spray world was an Ansul fire extinguisher I got from Homestead Air force base after Hurricane Andrew in 92'. I took the fire extinguisher to be sandblasted with the idea of repainting it. The man at the sandblasting operation had a new Sulzer Metco wire feed flame coating system with zinc/alum wire. He suggested I try that out to prevent corrosion. I had him sandblast then flame coat with zinc/alum wire and every since I have been amazed at the sacrificial nature of that coating and its resistance to corrosion. I left the fire extinguisher out on the grass in the Florida weather for over 10 years total now having to bring it in at times depending on where I lived but not a single spot of rust has every appeared on this fire extinguisher)
Ok so that’s how I got the thermal coating bug.

Now I have a piece of property and time enough to dedicate to the technology and want a system. I found this system for sale but I am concerned that I cannot get parts: Sulzer Metco, #4RPE-200 AMP, 4 Position, 4RC Spray Gun. This is a full system all the parts and gun needed to work. But if no parts are available on an old system I don’t want to throw my money down a hole.
What do you all know about parts for this system and if you don’t think this is a good way to go what system do you recommend?

Thanks in advance, Dan

Hi,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCJ0AgLeuRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXlOvoSj5Cc

Ion
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05-26-2009, 05:50 PM,
#6
RE: Want to purchase Thermal coating system, need advice
Hi Dan,

Stuart Milton from the Metallisation camp - here to give my opinion which is obviously a bit biased but I'll try to keep it in check.

We would generally agree with GlenB - for peace of mind, stick with one of the big 3. How to choose between those, I'll leave up to you and the forum.

I'd also generally agree with Simon from Sulzer (shock horror - competitors not contradicting each other) and consider the amount of work you plan to do. As well as the cost considerations, Arc systems are typically easier to use than flame but flame systems aren't really hard to use either. When considering arc, bear in mind that some of the cheaper systems are OK for zinc but may not be suitable for spraying aluminium or copper or bronze or steels which you may want to use for decorative coatings.

We have a distributor in the USA, TMS Metalizing - they'll be pleased to chat through your Metallisation options for flame or arc.

Good luck,

Stuart.
Stuart Milton
Metallisation Ltd
https://www.metallisation.com
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06-04-2009, 11:21 AM,
#7
RE: Want to purchase Thermal coating system, need advice
Dear Dan,

We can sell new arcspray.(TAFA 8830 type gun,450 Amp.Power supply "Origin:USA")We can give very good price.
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06-04-2009, 07:30 PM,
#8
RE: Want to purchase Thermal coating system, need advice
Solid Spray Technologies offers two metallizing guns. They are not one of the Big 3, and thus are very customer oriented. They guns are simple and reliable and can spray everything from zinc and aluminum to hardfacing wires. They even have a system which can be mounted on a truck bed or trailer which includes a generator and air compressor, so you can drive to a job site in the middle of the wilderness and spray.

If you want to do decorative coatings as well, Solid Spray's combustion arc provides a denser, finer-structured (smoother) coating which looks very nice.

Personally, I feel the simplicity of using air and electricity are worth the slightly higher cost. I don't like the idea of doing a job with oxygen and acetylene and running out before I am done. By using air and electricity, this risk is almost eliminated.
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06-06-2009, 03:02 PM,
#9
RE: Want to purchase Thermal coating system, need advice
Hi Danowolf

Sorry, a bit late but,

Sign0016 to the Surface Engineering Forum.
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