Boriding or boronizing

[gasper]

Hi,

can anyone tell me something about boriding. I know what is boriding, but if is possible to get more information about this surface treatment.

When to use it and where to use it.

Regards,

Gasper

[Gordon]

Hi Gasper

Sorry for being a bit lazy, but have a look at the links below.


I like this pdf document on boronising (edit 13May2009 - link seems to be dead)


Some applications are listed on this web site (edit 10Feb2011 - link seems to be dead)

[gasper]

Hi Gordon,

thank you for all this.

But how much is use this application in industry?

Everywhere I read articles I see that this treatment is not used a lot. Usually they use PVD or CVD.

Why?

I know that this treatment is very good with good results.

Regards,

Gasper

[KRYM2006]

Hello!

Did anybody work with boronized cast iron or steel?

I can not find any information on behavior of boronized materials in aggressive environments. Particularly, I am interested in protection a cast iron rod at 1000 degree Celsius against molten aluminum and fluxes used in smelting process.

In a PDF commercial from SINTEF (link is given two posts above) it is written "Good oxidation/corrosion (in water, molten Al and Zn, etc.)". But what does "good" mean? It is a question... Also, fluxes make difference. Protected part has to withstand aggression Na, F, Al, Ca, and Oxigen ions (it is not a comprehensive list).

[drramc]

hi,
one of the processes of boronizing consists of electrodeposition of boron from fused salt bath containing Li, Na, K - fluoride plus boron at temperatures of 800C -900C.Boride coating is expected to withstand corrosive molten cryolite bath.Depending on the process and process parameters used the coating properties can vary,esp,with microstructure variations.
ram chattopadhyay

[KRYM2006]

Thank you Ram!
Then I will research in this direction too.

[KRYM2006]

It would be good if it was not so doubtful...

The boronizing is a diffusion process. Typical boronizing temperature is from 850C to 960C. It means that as soon as one places boronized material into molten cryolite (~1000 C) boron is going to start diffusing out of sample towards medium with a lower boron concentration. Correct?

[Gordon]

Hi KRYM2006

It would be good if it was not so doubtful...

The boronizing is a diffusion process. Typical boronizing temperature is from 850C to 960C. It means that as soon as one places boronized material into molten cryolite (~1000 C) boron is going to start diffusing out of sample towards medium with a lower boron concentration. Correct?
Posted by KRYM2006 - Monday, 11th June 2007 01:38 PM

Yes, I think you are correct.

Boronising normally recommended for up to about 650 C, dramatically loosing hardness above this point. At ~1000 C I would suspect aluminium may interact with boron as well as the cast iron. I have my doubts whether boronising would give any significant protection, particularly over longer periods of exposure.

Hi Gasper

Sorry, we seem to have gone slightly off track with your original questions

Hi Gordon,

thank you for all this.

But how much is use this application in industry?

Everywhere I read articles I see that this treatment is not used a lot. Usually they use PVD or CVD.

Why?

I know that this treatment is very good with good results.

Regards,

Gasper

I don't know really how much is used in industry generally. I know it is common for specific industrial uses such as tool dies and moulds. Strictly speaking boronising is in fact a chemical vapour deposition CVD process as is carburising and nitriding, but we now tend to think of PVD/CVD as "high tech" thin film coating processes. I don't think any particular form of surface engineering technique dominates or is capable of being univerally good at everything. Thin film PVD/CVD are not really in competition with boronising, in fact it is probably more likely they would be used in combination.

[drramc]

Hi KRYM2006

It would be good if it was not so doubtful...

The boronizing is a diffusion process. Typical boronizing temperature is from 850C to 960C. It means that as soon as one places boronized material into molten cryolite (~1000 C) boron is going to start diffusing out of sample towards medium with a lower boron concentration. Correct?
Posted by KRYM2006 - Monday, 11th June 2007 01:38 PM

Yes, I think you are correct.

Boronising normally recommended for up to about 650 C, dramatically loosing hardness above this point. At ~1000 C I would suspect aluminium may interact with boron as well as the cast iron. I have my doubts whether boronising would give any significant protection, particularly over longer periods of exposure.

Hi Gasper

Sorry, we seem to have gone slightly off track with your original questions

Hi Gordon,

thank you for all this.

But how much is use this application in industry?

Everywhere I read articles I see that this treatment is not used a lot. Usually they use PVD or CVD.

Why?

I know that this treatment is very good with good results.

Regards,

Gasper

I don't know really how much is used in industry generally. I know it is common for specific industrial uses such as tool dies and moulds. Strictly speaking boronising is in fact a chemical vapour deposition CVD process as is carburising and nitriding, but we now tend to think of PVD/CVD as "high tech" thin film coating processes. I don't think any particular form of surface engineering technique dominates or is capable of being univerally good at everything. Thin film PVD/CVD are not really in competition with boronising, in fact it is probably more likely they would be used in combination.

Hi,
Coatings cannot lead to zero wear (or corrosion),but can minimize the rate of wear.In severe wear /corrosion conditions,such as this and in aeroengine(e.g.,TBC) coating life is limited, hence periodic renewal of coating is essential. Also in high temperature applications at 800C+, the base material properties would rapidly detoriorate, resulting in failure by creep. You may need something like Nimonic as the base material at 800C+.
To find a solution of this type of problem one need to conduct lab tests/ actual trials of the coated materials in similar hot corrosion environment to find the optimum solution.There is no other alternative.
ram

[drramc]

solar dynamic power system uses a series of tubes,heated by solar flux and carrying yhe heated fluid in Bryton Cycle engine.the tubes are immersed in molten LiFand CaF2 eutectic mixture at a temp between 811k and 1116K.Cobalt base stellite,Haynes 188(Co-22Cr-22Ni-14W-0.1C) as tube material has been found to be satisfactory.Nearest cheaper Stellite powder/rod with higher hiber C is Stellite F or 32 used extensively as PTA overlay on tappet valves.This alloy coat may be considered as one of the probables.
ram

[Gordon]

These posts have been split to form new thread " Boron Clusters "

Hi,

(apologies tendered if this posts more than once)

I'm a new member of the forum and have been specializing in the practical industrial modification of this highly advantageous treatment for many years. I have developed an entirely new class of boron materials which are capable of producing all the highly desirable properties of boron, and none of the traditional limitations which have prevented industrial-scale usage. This is exclusively due to the discovery of a method of producing pure BORON CLUSTERS which are somewhat analogous to Carbon Fullerenes and nanotubes. The clusters are properly described as "metamaterials" since they have properties of both metals and ceramics at the same time, as well as many which are unlike any other known materials.

The original application was ion implantation of silicon wafers for microprocessor fabrication. However, during the course of that research and development project, extraordinary spontaneous reactions with virtually every material used in the experimental apparatus was consistently observed. Subsequent analysis of the components revealed that entirely novel new materials were being created. For example, high purity graphite electrodes were growing integral surface layers of boron carbide which were not traditional B4C as one would expect, but rather turned out to be _B13C2_ with utterly different properties.

Virtually every element in the Periodic Table is predicted to be able to form this entirely new class of boron-cluster-based truly covalent molecular compounds which have crystalline structure.

We are just bringing this out of the laboratory, and are presently in the pre-commercialization stage of corporate evolution. Significant preliminary interest is being expressed by the US DoD and DoE. We are seeking research and Development sponsorship from carefully selected members of the Commercial Sector.

Should anyone find this of interest, please contact Rick Becker at > ionsourcerer@mac.com <. We are very pleased to be a new member of your community, and look forward to making many new friends.

Regards and Happy New Year,

Rick

Hi Rick

to the Surface Engineering Forum.

Sounds interesting.

I think this may be worth starting a new thread.



Thread split from Boriding or boronizing

[ionsourcerer]

These posts have been split to form new thread "Boron Clusters"

Hi,

(apologies tendered if this posts more than once)

I'm a new member of the forum and have been specializing in the practical industrial modification of this highly advantageous treatment for many years. I have developed an entirely new class of boron materials which are capable of producing all the highly desirable properties of boron, and none of the traditional limitations which have prevented industrial-scale usage. This is exclusively due to the discovery of a method of producing pure BORON CLUSTERS which are somewhat analogous to Carbon Fullerenes and nanotubes. The clusters are properly described as "metamaterials" since they have properties of both metals and ceramics at the same time, as well as many which are unlike any other known materials.

The original application was ion implantation of silicon wafers for microprocessor fabrication. However, during the course of that research and development project, extraordinary spontaneous reactions with virtually every material used in the experimental apparatus was consistently observed. Subsequent analysis of the components revealed that entirely novel new materials were being created. For example, high purity graphite electrodes were growing integral surface layers of boron carbide which were not traditional B4C as one would expect, but rather turned out to be _B13C2_ with utterly different properties.

Virtually every element in the Periodic Table is predicted to be able to form this entirely new class of boron-cluster-based truly covalent molecular compounds which have crystalline structure.

We are just bringing this out of the laboratory, and are presently in the pre-commercialization stage of corporate evolution. Significant preliminary interest is being expressed by the US DoD and DoE. We are seeking research and Development sponsorship from carefully selected members of the Commercial Sector.

Should anyone find this of interest, please contact Rick Becker at > ionsourcerer@mac.com <. We are very pleased to be a new member of your community, and look forward to making many new friends.

Regards and Happy New Year,

Rick

Hi Rick

to the Surface Engineering Forum.

Sounds interesting.

I think this may be worth starting a new thread.



Thread split from Boriding or boronizing

[amireleslam]

Hi Gasper

Sorry for being a bit lazy, but have a look at the links below.

sintef.no/units/matek/Stalmat/materialdagen%202005/Foredrag%20Materialdagen%2005%20-%20J%20Berget.pdf - I like this pdf document on boronising - Sorry link dead


geocities.com/bcarbide/boropack.htm - Some applications are listed on this web site - Sorry this link dead as well.

plz upload the first link again
thnx for your efforts

[Gordon]

Hi amireleslam

to the Surface Engineering Forum.

Thanks for pointing out the dead link. I have had a quick look to see if I can find the document elsewhere, but no joy. Google, still has the page indexed, so assume there is a problem or it has been moved or removed recently. Pity